Tuesday, 25 December 2007

Mind Your Korean 2: The one where 선생님 beats Liz to the punch line

Orchid and Liz continue with their Korean lessons (yes, Rooster still naps) and share with you their adventures and misadventures with the language in MYK 2!

Wow, we did a lot in the 2nd lesson and there was even an additional student in class. Now, the grand total of students in our Korean language class is SIX.

Among other things, we continued to learn about final consonants (batchim), aspirated consonants (ㅋ, ㅍ, ㅌ,ㅊ, ㅎ), as well as asking simple questions such as 뭐예요? (mwo-ye-yo = What is this?), 누구예요 (noo-goo-ye-yo = Who is this?) and 어디예요? (eo-di-ye-yo = Where is this?).

We also ran through 있어요 (iss-eo-yo = there is/have), 없어요 (eop-seo-yo = there isn’t/don’t have) and since we learnt 좋아해요 (joh-ah-hae-yo = like) last week, Teacher taught us the difference between 좋아해요 and 좋아요 (joh-ah-yo = good, fine).

포크 & 나이프

While learning to ask questions, we learnt two new words – 포크 (po-keu) and 나이프 (nai-peu). Teacher asked us to guess what they were. Can you? (take a few seconds here, if you don’t already know).

We drew a blank so she went:

Teacher: 포크 is fork and 나이프 is knife. For Koreans, we pronounce each syllable of the word clearly. So po-keu – since we don’t have “F” – is fork and nai-peu is knife. But Koreans with good English, and even ordinary Koreans these days will just say “fork and knife”.

Cow liquor, anyone?

While learning with flash cards, the class came across the word 포도 (po-do = grape). Hey, it sounds familiar to me because grapes in Hokkien (a Chinese dialect which I speak) is po-toh. Then Teacher expanded on the word a bit.

Teacher: Can anyone guess what 포도주 (po-do-ju) is? 주 (ju) is actually similar to the Chinese word “chiu” as in liquor. So 포도주 (grape liquor) is wine.
Fellow student: 선생님, then you’re telling me 소주 (so-ju) is “cow liquor” since last week, we learned that cow is 소 (so)?
Teacher: No, no, no it is not like that. But you’re very imaginative.

Teacher (or 선생님) steals the punchline

After the 1st class last week, Teacher discovered that I was a Bi fan and had been asking me now and then, 비 좋아해요? (Bi joh-ah-hae-yo? = Do you like Rain?), so I could practice my 네, 좋아해요 (Ne, joh-ah-hae-yo = Yes, I like).

So for the week leading up to our 2nd class, I’ve been practicing with Orchid this so-called “punch line”, which I had planned to deliver when Teacher asked me the question again.

It would have gone: 아니요. 비 안 좋아해요, 하지만 사랑해요! (A-ni-yo. Bi An joh-ah-hae-yo, ha-ji-man sa-rang-hae-yo = No, I don’t like Rain, but I love him).

However, it was not meant to be as right at the beginning of the 2nd class, Teacher actually stole the punch line when she did a recap. Bummer, I guess the joke was on me ;-)

Class adjourned, see you next time.

Mind Your Korean series:
MYK 1: I'm sorry (미안합니다) - You're welcome (아니에요)
MYK 3: The tale of the uncooperative tissue paper
MYK 4: From learning the alphabets to self-introduction
MYK 5: Simple conversations in Korean
MYK 6: 하나, 둘, 셋, 넷...come on and count in Korean!
MYK Quiz 1: The Match Up
MYK Quiz 1: Answers and winner announcement
MYK 7: Location, location, location
MYK Tidbits
MYK 8: 일, 이, 삼, 사...come on and count in Sino-Korean!

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Clammy said...

Ha ha ha ha!! Cow liquor!

What order did you learn the consonants in?

Liz said...

Hello Clammy :-)!

I'm not sure if I got the order right as I didn't write it down but Teacher taught us how to sing the consonants to the ABC tune.

You know: 가, 나, 다, 라, 마, 바, 사, 아, 자, 차, 카, 타, 파, 하.

So far, Teacher taught us the 5 basic consonants, the four consonants "birthed" from the basic consonants, the batchims and the 5 aspirated consonants.

Gail T. said...

heehee. this is very informative. makes me want to pick up my textbook again.

how often does the class meet?

and, how do you say, "i like this k-popped series" in korean? :D

fraulein said...

You had me laughing goofily at my desk during lunchtime with this

" It would have gone: 아니요. 비 안 좋아해요, 하지만 사랑해요! (A-ni-yo. Bi An joh-ah-hae-yo, ha-ji-man sa-rang-hae-yo = No, I don’t like Rain, but I love him)"

kpop_rub said...

Ohh this reminds me, you can practice your alphabet song with DBSK

Liz said...

Hi Gail, I guess: "이게 Mind Your Korean series 좋아해요"...unless someone would like to correct me :-).

kpop_rub, I watched the video...they went so fast, I couldn't keep up :-P.

Clammy said...

drop the "geh" in the iigeh. That's used in like "what is this" or "This is..." Not "This (insert noun)"

Liz said...

Ah, thanks Clammy :-) Noted. Drop the 게.

Gail T. said...

게 dropped. :D thanks.

ladida said...

haha..u girls r awesome!! free online korean lessons...now if only there's a button to click on a pronunciation key, that would've been super-duper XD...btw, since we're talking korean -- what's the difference betw. "saranghaeyo" & "sarangnida"? Also, can you help me pronounce these 2 words correctly in korean - "ok"[ah-loc-so?] & "dummy"[pa-bu]? (sorry for the poor romanization..i hear them alot in FH..so cute)

meiruo_chan said...

ladida... I've read about the difference between saranghaeyo and saranghanda (i think that's what you're mean to write) somewhere before. They meant the same thing 'I love you'. It's just the formality and less formality. Usually when there's "da" at the end of a sentence, that means the sentence is very formal. "yo" is a formal form of sentence too but in term of less formal.

Korean have level of speaking in their culture. 'Da' is used to someone that is higher than you and you don't know. I.e a person you met for the fist time. 'Yo' is used when, for someone higher and superior but you already know them. Like your parents, grandparents etc. And informal speech i.e no 'da' and 'yo', is used to someone closer to you like your close friends and peers.

In this case of saranghaeyo and saranghanda, they are meant to convey how tense the meaning of i love you. I often heard in a drama when the character sometimes said saranghaeyo to a person and when the person didn't response he/she switch to saranghanda. Hope you get what it's mean.

and for the 'ok' and 'dummy'. i don't catch what is that 'ah-loc-so'? korean usually used 'choh-da'(formal) for ok. Less formal 'choh-a-yo' or 'choh-a' for informal. I wrote that as how to pronounce it. actually the correct romanization is not ch but j. but most of korean words with j, sounds very close to ch, so it's easy that way.

As for 'dummy' the correct pronunciation is [ba-bo]. Reminds me of Wonder-girls new song which is the same title. Hahaha...

Ok, my English is not that good. but hoping that you understand what am i trying to explain.

meiruo_chan said...

ah...re-read you entry and finally get it what you mean. It's 'aras-so' or the correct roman 'a-ra-seo'. It means I understand, I get it, I know,ok. Ara in korean means understand.

ladida said...

meiruo_chan, kam-san-ham-ni-da[thank you]. mi-an-ham-ni-da nan ba-bo[sorry i'm a dummy] yeo ul-jjang[you're the best]. na korean, aigoo! oh-tok-yeh?! [my korean,.oh lord! what to do?! Back to eng: thks, i'm sure it wasn't easy to decipher what I was trying to say. You're super fantabulous!! please don't leave kpopped. We need you (ok, more like i need you! XD). There are so much more words i want to learn like how to say "i wish each and everyone on kpopped a safe & happy new year!" I know "everyone" = yeo-reo-boon ;P

Clammy said...

Ladida & Meiruo-chan Sorry, I need to make a few corrections here. Sarangada is not necessarily the MORE formal version of Satangheyo. Also, attaching a da at the end doesn't always mean more formal either. Yo is the general attatchment to the honorific form.

It's a bit complicated in korean when it comes to the honorific form of speaking. In fact, sometimes it's downright hard to understand. Just ask any young korean or korean outside of korea how difficult it is to understand the bible in korean or to watch older Korean dramas that take place in Ancient times. (The recent Daewong Sashingi "The King and Four Legends" takes place in ancient times but isn't as complicated.)

Saranghanda is actually used quite informally a lot. You might be confusing it with Saranhamnida which is very formal. Sarangheyo is formal as well but can be used informally as well. It's very dependent on umm.. tone of voice an how it's being used. Also, you can use the -yo attatchment with people you have never met before. The differents forms of speaking is essentially for different levels of formality and meeting someone new isn't necessarily more formal than someone that you know already but is older/higher than you. The more difficult part in the honorific forms involve using different words altogether that mean the same thing. Meaning, you can't just always attatch -yo to the end of everything. Also, you don't always use those words with everyone that is considered higher/older than you, it's many times situation dependent based on your relationship with the person or your relationship with the subject involved.

As for the J vs CH sound. There are actually two distinct letters for a J sound and CH, Jiut and Chiut (they are right after eachother in the alphabet). There is also what is described as a hard J sound. Kind of like an accented J which we call Ssang jiut. It's written with basically two Jiuts put together. It's also in other letters as well.

What is Cho-da?

Okay in korean can actually just be Okay as well (it's the most common english word in the world) and we use it frequently. Aduhsoh means I get it or I understand. Adoh by itself is I know. Adah is incorrect on it own. There are several other ways to say this though but they are just different tenses, like I already know or I get it already (Algoo-iisoh, Adahddagoo). You can always just say "neh". Jjohwa or jjohwayo literally means I like it which can be a response for I get it but is not the typical response. Depends on context.

Baboh is idiot. There are several other uh simple insults that mean basically the same thing. Ddol Dehgahdi litterally means rock head, Mongchungi and Mushikenom both mean you're stupid/idiotic/moron.

labdida in your statement to Meiru-chan when you said "mi-an-ham-ni-da nan ba-bo", you're actually calling Meiru-chan the babo there. nnn... unless you were trying to say baboyeyo. Also, you would use Neh Korean and not Nah in that case. That's not the same "neh" as in Yes but as in mine. Nah is more like Me.

Hope this is helpful!

Clammy said...

P.S. For Happy new year, we say "Seh-bok Man-hi Badohsehyo" Which means something along the lines of recieve lots of good fortune (in the new year is implied). It's different for Chinese New Years.

Orchid said...

Wow, interesting discussions here.


My sister and i like to use "baboya" (stupid) and "cagiya" (endearment) a lot. Both we learnt from watching the Korean dramas. ;-)

meiruo_chan said...

Thanks Clammy for the clarification about the 'Saranghaeyo' and 'Saranghanda'. As you said, honorific form is not that easy to understand and you can easily get twisted from the actual fact.

About the Jiut and Chiut. I always had a problem to translate roman to han-geul when I came across this two. Some people use Ch for both and some separate it as they spell it in roman and some use it as to how the sound is heard to them.

Like : Jeo-neun Meiruo im-ni-da.
I also came across Cho-nun Meiruo im-ni-da. But I'm more pleased with the first one because that is how the roman would be when you translate it from han-geul. Ssang-jiut is pretty easy to predict to me because of the tense sound it made.

And did you mispell the 'Aduhsoh' and 'Adahddagoo'? Can't figure out from the roman. But I think 'd' supposed to be 'r'. Can you provide me the Han-geul? I think the Han-geul is '아랐어' and '아랐다고'. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And for the 'I' refer to me/myself. What is the difference between 'Nae' , 'Na' or 'Nan' and 'Jeo'? Usually I used to address myself 'Jeo' which means I rather than the other the other two.

Ladida thanks for the 'jjang'. But it's supposed to be 'neo jjang-i-ya' (you're the best). if you put the 'ul' in front of the 'jjang', that means (you're the prettiest). Haha... anyway both sentences have good meanings. Thank you. Kamsahamnida! And Happy New Year [Seh-bok Man-hi Badohsehyo]!

Clammy said...

Sorry, I can't put the hangul because I can't type in korean on my computer. I don't think I spelled anything wrong because I didn't spell anything in Korean! ha ha ha! Actually, it's just the way I romanize things. We don't have a real 'R' or 'L' sound but instead something in between. We do have a 'D' sound but it's a bit harder than the english 'D'. The R/L sound can also be very soft. Because of this, I tend to interchange Romanize Liul with a D depending on the word and the vowel afterwards.

I have a difficult time romanizing korean because of similair sounding letters or combination of letters that actually sound like something else (for example, sebok in the Happy new year phrase is actualy written sehheh-bok but you don't pronounce it that way). But mostly I have a hard time romanizing because when I learned the Korean alphabet, it was assumed that Korean was my first language. Therefore, we didn't get english equivelents written out on the board so that we could understand the "translated" sound. And, becauase I was born and raised in the United States, I was simultaneously learning the english alphabet with the assumption that it was my first language and therefore, it's not like they put up English letters with korean equivelants next to it. Though I learned to speak korean words before english words, they are both my first language. Soooo... I'm bad at romanizing korean. Anyways, I don't tend to use R for the romanizing of korean words because I don't want people to think it sounds like the english soft R. Even in words like Sarang (love), I tend to interchange it with Sadang and even then sometimes I'll throw 'H'es in there so that people don't think the 'A' sounds like 'A' as in the word "way".

Clammy said...

To continue, Jeo or Jeh is formal. When using Jeo, it's usually followed by -neun (Jeo-neun) which is basically "I am". Or in response to a who question you just say Jeo-yo meaning just me or it's me. Jeh tends to be followed by ga (Jeh-ga) which is "I will" or "I am going to" or "I would". Jeh is like the formal version of Neh, likewise, Jeo is like the formal version Nah. Nan is uh... I guess a shortened version of Na-neun. It isn't necessarily improper to use Nah or Neh in a formal situation though. Its just a matter of how you use it.

You can actually drop the -i-ya in jjang in a very informal slang manner. Similair to dropping -desu in Japanese.

ladida said...

ROFL..i'm really getting a kick out of this "fanning myself" XD.. Mwuh?! Omo!Omo!Omo! Meiruo_chan, mi-an-ham-ni-da. Ba-bo-yeyo. Thanks for the crash course guys! Meiruo_chan, you're super fantabulous! Clammy, you're ubberly fantabulorific!! (Fantastic, faBULOus, terRIFIC) All I can say is, thank goodness i'm not in the classroom w/u girls; i'll constantly bang my head on the desk. Gosh, the formality/nonformality (the systematic rules) is just as complicated as Chinese. FYI, i'm already an embarrassment when it comes to grasping Chinese. So i think i'll stick to learning fun & simple phrases. "Seh-bok man-hi ba-doh-seh-yo!"

meiruo_chan said...

Thanks Clammy for the answer. Kamsahamnida! And Ladida, don't bang your head on the table yet! Save that for the latter. Hahaha...

So, Clammy you're born and raised in States. I thought that you're born in Korean and later move to the States. Well, I guess we're all face trouble when we learned something new. Especially when it comes to language.

Lately I was so engrossed in Korean historical drama since I came across Dae Jang Geum. And Now Yisan, Tae Hwang Sa Shin Ki, and The King and I. That's why I always using the formal Korean. It's good but sometimes you feel like a robot talking that way to your friend. It feels like you're talking in English using all the perfect sentences you can only found in a textbook! Hahaha...

And to K-popped crew, Hwaiting! in this year 2008. I'm waiting for your new post of "Mind Your Korean 3".

rooster said...

When I was in school, the Korean girls would always be whining - "Oppahhhhh, hachimah!" What's that?

Oh yea, we used to call this kid "piongshin" (sorry, I don't know if that's the right romanization). Haha, I guess it's something bad, but what does it mean, really?

Liz said...

Ooh, Rooster, I know the first one. Oppa hajima = 오빠 하지마

It translates to (in a very Malaysian way): "Abang, stop it!"

Clammy said...

Rooster Byongshin means cripple. It's sort of like calling someone a clumsy retard or just retarded. However, I mean just the way it's used and not the actual meaning.

Yes, Oppa Ha-jima means stop it. Oppa is what a girl calls a guy if they are older/dominant position. It's informal. It's usually used when the guy is older but in a romantic relationship, the girl calls the guy oppa even if she's older.

A girl calls another older girl Unnee, a guy calls an older girl Noona and an older guy Hyung.

jaime said...

oh my god.
you girls are the best.
i would read the entire thing
but it is too funny. its really hard to contain my laughter while sitting in side this super quite computer lab. hehe. ^^

wawa said...

pergh...so confusing!!!
hahaha...i think i'll take forever to understand & pronounce it correctly... wish i can take the class if i'm not busy with work!


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