Wednesday, 23 January 2008

Mind Your Korean 6: 하나, 둘, 셋, 넷...come on and count in Korean!

Orchid and Liz use their fingers and toes to count in Korean - while Rooster counts sheep in her sleep - in their latest Korean language class. They now share with you their adventures and misadventures with the language in MYK6!
여러분 (yeo-reo-boon = everyone), put on your Dracula costumes because we’re going to make like Count Dracula and count (what else?) in Korean (of course).

In this lesson, we will be playing around with native Korean numbers (숫자 = sut-ja = numbers) and will leave the Sino-Korean ones for another day.

Teacher: How do we use native Korean and Sino-Korean numbers? In reading out the pages of a book or dates we use Sino-Korean numbers. What else?
Fellow student: Money!
Teacher: 맞아요 (ma-ja-yo) Correct! We count money in Sino-Korean. But for age (나이 = na-i), people (사람 = saram) and objects/things (물건 = mool-geon), we use native Korean. What else?
Liz: Time?
Teacher: For time, it’s a mixture of both native and Sino-Korean.
Liz: Bwah ha ha ha ha…

Getting to know 하나, 둘, 셋…

And so we delved into the world of native Korean numbers. Below is part of what we learned. According to 선생님, numbers 40-99 are rarely used, except when talking about age.

1 = 하나 (ha-na) ~~~ 한(han)___

2 = 둘 (dool) ~~~ 두(doo)___

3 = 셋 (set) ~~~ 세(se)___

4 = 넷 (net) ~~~ 네(ne)___

5 = 다섯 (da-seot)

6 = 여섯 (yeo-seot)

7 = 일곱 (il-gop)

8 = 여덟 (yeo-deol, the 1st batchim is selected to be pronounced)

9 = 아홉 (a-hop)

10 = 열 (yeol)

20 = 스물 (seu-mool) ~~~ 스무(seu-moo)___

30 = 서른 (seo-reun)


Apart from that, we learned the counter word for various objects. I will have to fall back on Bahasa Malaysia (BM) to give you a better picture of this.

In BM, we have kata bilangan (direct translation = counting words) such as sebiji bola (a ball), dua buah rumah (two houses), tiga helai kertas (three sheets of paper) and so on.

They have that in Korean too. For instance if you are counting people, you go 명 (myeong), for age 살 (sal), for objects 개 (gae), for glasses/cups 잔 (jan) and so on.

K-popped! Trio가 몇명 있어요? 세명 있어요.

Also, when adding the counter word to the number mentioned, the numbers 하나, 둘, 셋, 넷 and 스물 change form to the one written on the far right of the number list above.

Are you still with me?

Why don’t you take some time to memorise (외우세요) the list above with the aid of a kiddie smash hit in…The Song Break.

The Song Break

Finding it hard to even remember numbers 1 – 10? No worries. Remember our favourite kiddie tune called Little Indians? The one that goes: One little, Two little, Three little Indians; Four little, five little, six little Indians…etc.

OK, now apply that tune and sing the song like so:

한명, 두명, 세명이에요;= han-myeong, du-myeong, se-myeong-i-e-yo;
네명, 다섯명, 여섯명이에요; = ne-myeong, da-seot-myeong, yeo-seot-myeong-i-e-yo;
일곱명, 여덟명, 아홉명이에요; = il-gop myeong, yeo-deol myeong, a-hop-meyong-i-e-yo;
열명이에요 = yeol myeong-i-e-yo

Got it? ;-) ;-)

Family matters

The class was then tasked with asking each other about our family and age so we could apply what we have learned. The examples below in no way reflect the true situation of Orchid, Rooster or Liz.

Example 1:
Q: 가족이 몇명 이에요? = kajogi myeon myeong-i-e-yo? = How many people are there in your family?
Note: If you follow the rules, 몇명 is actually pronounced myeot myeong, but it’s a little of a tongue twister there, so it is usually pronounced 면명 (myeon myeong) for a smoother speech.
A: 열한명이에요 = yeol-han-myeong-i-e-yo = 11 people.
Note: Take note of how 11 (열하나) is a combination of 10 + 1 (열 + 하나); and also how 하나 becomes 한 when the counter 명 is attached.

Example 2:
Q: 리즈씨, 오빠 있어요? = Lijeu-sshi, oppa isseoyo? = Liz, do you have elder brother(s)?
A: 네, 있어요. = Ne, isseoyo = Yes, I have.
Q: 몇명이에요? = myeon myeong-i-e-yo? = How many persons?
A: 한명이에요. = han-myeong-i-e-yo. = One person.
Q: 몇살이에요? = myeot sa-ri-e-yo? = How old is he?
A: 스물아홉 살이에요. = seu-mool-a-hop sa-ri-e-yo. = 29 years old.

Ordering a cuppa

So let’s say you find yourself at a café in Seoul one day and want to order a drink. This is how you can do it:

녹차 있어요? = nok-cha isseoyo? = Do you have green tea?
아니오, 없어요. = anio, eobseoyo. = No, we don’t.
커피 있어요? = kheo-pi isseoyo? = Do you have coffee?
네, 있어요. = ne, isseoyo. = Yes, we do.
그럼, 커피 한잔 주세요. = geu-reom, kheo-pi han-jan juseyo. = Then, give me a cup of coffee please.
*a little while later*
여기 있어요 = yeo-gi isseoyo. = Here it is.
감사합니다 = gamsahamnida = Thank you. *slurrrrrp, ahhhhh*

No class next week

Below is a snippet of conversation the class had with Teacher about our next class, which happens to fall on a public holiday.

선생님, next week class 있어요?
아니오, 없어요. I will see you all 다음, 다음 주.
Fellow student:
Huh? What’s that?
다음 is next. 주 is week so 다음, 다음 주 is next, next week.
Orchid and Liz:
아, 그래요!

So my dear MYK series fans, there will be no entry on class next week.

Mind Your Korean series:

MYK 1: I'm sorry (미안합니다) - You're welcome (아니에요)
MYK 2: The one where 선생님 beats Liz to the punch line
MYK 3: The tale of the uncooperative tissue paper
MYK 4: From learning the alphabets to self-introduction
MYK 5: Simple conversations in Korean
MYK Quiz 1: The Match Up
MYK Quiz 1: Answers and winner announcement
MYK 7: Location, location, location
MYK Tidbits
MYK 8: 일, 이, 삼, 사...come on and count in Sino-Korean!

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Gail T. said...

fun entry! i find that i have a hard time with numbers... in any language. i just had numbers in my japanese class last week, and yeah, i really need to buckle down and practice.

anyhoo, have fun on your day off... or did 선생님 assign lots of homework?

btw, 리즈씨, 언니 있어요?

Clammy said...

HA HA! Have fun learning the two sets of numbers and when to use them! I think it'll be interesting. The Japanese just have 2 sets for shi/yon and shichi/nana but Koreans have two totally different sets! And we MIX THEM!!! It gets kind of difficult in the higher number sets because they aren't used that much. At least in the native korean form.

양생 said...

안녕하세요! 리즈씨,
You posted Mind Your Korean 6 finally...Haha !
Yes,no class today !

meiruo_chan said...

Haha...I have my hard time with Korean numbers as well. Especially the hard used one. And also when used to count money in won (Korean Currency). In Malaysia we didn't count like 1,000 won, 10,000 won to buy something. It's kinda confusing...I will try harder to remember.

kpop_rub said...

OMG this by far the most confusing lesson yet... I mean the whole native vs. sino has ALWAYS confused the heck out of me but then you added Malaysian and now I totally don't know whats going on >_<;;;; my head hurtsssss

hjn said...

if i ever meet the person who created the dual number system, i'll sure to give him/her a good smack.
Sino korean is insane, even for the tenths they have diff term for each "ten"..
the worst is that you'll have to know which type of number to use with which type of counter!

Clammy said...

Huh what? Sino-Korean is much easier. Once you know 1-10, you know pretty much all the numbers between 1-99 and just have to learn 100, 1000, 10,000 etc. It's native Korean that's harder to remember some of the upper tens.

Liz said...

여러분 안녕하세요?! :-)

양생씨, welcome to K-popped! 어떻게 지냈어요?

Gail, 언니가 많니 있어요 :-).

Thanks to everyone here who's commenting. Lessons are definitely getting more challenging, but I'm so happy because my vocab and general understanding of the language is increasing.

Like last night, when I was watching Full House on KBS World, there was this scene where Song Hye-kyo was ordering popcorn and drinks.

She went: "Popcorn (sorry dunno how to Hangeulize it) 한, 콜라 두 개 주세요."

And I understood it without reading the subs. Soon, my understanding of Korean will be on par with my understanding of Cantonese, or even Mandarin...I hope.

Gail T. said...

sneaky answer liz. hehe.

as you increase your Korean language knowledge, we're with you.. and learning with you (LOL). hwaiting!

Orchid said...

hwaiting! :-)

Liz said...

Yay! 아자 아자 화이팅!

hjn said...

haha, clammy, sorry. i mean native korean is hard.
by the way, i think there's a special term for it - native korean numbers.
i remember when i went to korea, i would say the number with my mouth, hope that i'm saying it right, while signalling with my fingers.. i always get a confirmative question, not a good thing.

hjn said...

This is the nightmares of the tenths

10 = 열
20 = 스물
30 = 서른
40 = 마흔
50 = 쉰 (<- i can remember this one well because of the word 쉬 which means easy...)
60 = 예순 (think Yesus / Jesus .. hahah)
70 = 일흔 (think 일곱)
80 = 여든 (think 여덟)
90 = 아흔 (think 아홉)

by the way, does anyone know when we do contract 하나 to 한 and when we don't... cause like 셋 and 넷 i every come accross times when its left that way and not 세 and 네

Orchid said...

Yeah..the native Korean higher number sets are quite difficult to remember. in Liz's entry, we contract when we use counting words.


Also, when adding the counter word to the number mentioned, the numbers 하나, 둘, 셋, 넷 and 스물 change form to the one written on the far right of the number list above.

ladida said...

Numbers, directions (esp. East/West, l/r) always confuse me in any native tongue (spanish, mandarin, cantonese, etc). But hey, at least I can say that I have no problem memorizing the numbers up to 4 in Korean. XD
가족이 몇명 이에요? = kajogi myeon myeong-i-e-yo? ...Correct me if I'm wrong but is:
'myeong-i-e-yo' = how many are there? there are many...
'myeon' = person or # of persons
'kajogi' = family
Here's another dumb question (Nothing new here; I seem to have many of those ;P ). Why do Koreans have two sets of numbering systems? Is one more modern than the other?

Anonymous said...

~~ is too hard for me. I only know hana,doo n set... de rest I really can't memorize it well... faint*

Clammy said...

ladida Kajok is family, the "i" is just uh a conjugation because of the sentence.
Myeon is how many except that it's pronounced or sounds more like "met" (like myeon really fast.)
Myeong-i-e-yo is attatched to the how many (as a counting word) and is used in reference to people only (informal).

The Sino-Korean is borrowed/influenced from Chinese (as the name suggests). Dunno why though!

No idea

meiruo_chan said...

Just like Clammy said, Sino-korean numbers are based on Chinese words. While Native-korean numbers are designated from Hangeul. If I'm not mistaken, ancient Korean used Sino-Korean to count until the time of King Sejong, the 4th King of Joseon Dynasty who responsible of creating Hangeul we learned now.

Sino-Korean is much easier to learn as it's almost the same with Mandarin.

Hwaiting K-poppers!

ladida said...

Clammy & Meiruo_chan, gomawoyo!
So any words with ending suffixes like -ieyo, -yeyo, -imnida is used in reference to people only. And even though the hangeul for '-imnida' is '-ibnida', we pronounced it w/ a 'm' sound instead of a 'b' sound (e.g., kamsahamnida, mianhamnida) just sounds smoother?? o.O

Also, I have another question about the phrase 'mannaseo bangapseumnida' = Nice to meet you. If 'mannaseo' = nice meeting this person & 'bangapseumnida' = nice to meet you, then the word 'mannaseo' is pretty redundant. That is why it's okay (isn't rude) to greet someone with just 'bangapseumnida'..right?

Once again, please excuse my ignorance, but how many provincial/regional dialects are there in Korea? The official written language is 'Hangul'...and the official Korean dialect is called...? Can't be "Han" cuz that's the name from the Chinese Dynasty...(boy, I hope i don't get myself in trouble here cuz i know i'm sounding politically incorrect. Sorry if i'm offending anyone. Mianhamnida!)

Clammy said...

ladida the suffixes are not in reference to just people. I was referring to the counting word "myeong" that is only in reference to people. The other suffixes (-ieyo, -yeyo, etc) are honorific form suffixes.

Mannaseo is to have met and Bangawo (root word of Bangapseumnida) is uh.. a pleasure. So together it's really "It's a pleasure to meet you" or "Pleased to meet you". Yes, you can just say bangapseumnida.

As far as dialects go, Korea doesn't have dialects that are so far off that it's like learning another language. It's more like accents We have what we sometimes refer to as Seoul dialect or accent, which is what you will likely hear in all the dramas, commercials, and news. The most other recognized dialect/accent is Satori which is basically southern speak (south South Korea). You hear this from people that are from the Busan, Masan, Jinju, Jeju, etc areas. It's also heard in the countryside. It's VERY difficult to understand sometimes and there's a lot of slang and words are often accented in different places. A lot of sentences will end with a drawn out "eh" or "yeh". I have to deal with this when I visit some of my family members in Korea but it's not nearly as bad since they picked up the accent after moving there. You can't miss it if you heard it. If you watch the movie "Chingoo", that's how they speak throughout pretty much the entire movie (since it takes place in Busan). North Koreans also have this accent. Incidentally, it's pretty easy to pick up the accent to a degree and to lose as well.

The Korean language is called Hangukeo or Hangukmal (literally Korean Speak). The North Koreans call it Choseonmal (also literally Korean speak). The North Koreans have some minor differences in speech. As in, they'll call certain things by different/alternative names and they will spell certain things differently as well.

ladida said...

Clammy, gomawo. Thanks for clarifying my confusion about 'mannaseo bangapseumnida'. Adjusting one's ear to a diff. accent is a lot easier than picking up a new dialect. It's like here in the States, right? We have the Southern accents (the twangs & the drawls), East coast accents like the Phillies & the Brooklyn, West Coast accents, etc.
Btw Clammy, don't mean to get too personal, but did you say you were born here or raised here in the States? I only ask this cuz I find your knowledge simply smexy! Take that as a compliment, not an insult or a come on. :)

Clammy said...

ladida Ha ha, thanks. I was born and raised in Los Angeles.

MeiGwanSsi said...

Well done language mates. I am impressed with your website. Didn't know that you gals are so devoted to Korean stuff.

I wondered our "Seong Seng Nim" had hard time teaching me!

Salute !!!

The one who always ask 'jil mun' and most likely to fail 'seong seng nim' spotchecks. HAHAHA....

Orchid said...

MeiGwanSshi...thanks for visiting our site! Yes i know who you are. ;-)

Anne said...

Thank you for making this wonderful series of posts... I know many of us are grateful for your efforts.


There's a minor mistake: In the dialogue about green tea/coffee, it shouldn't be "그름" (geu-reum); rather, it should be "그럼," (geu-reom), as in:

"녹차가 없어요? /그럼/, 커피 한잔 주세요."

Clammy said...

She's absolutely right! Nice catch! It's really actually a short version of Geureomyeon.

Liz said...

안녕하세요 메이관씨, welcome to our site :-) Of course we know who you are! ;-)

Anne, thank you for spotting the mistake. I appreciate you informing me about it and will correct it immediately after this. Don't want this site to be a classic example of the blind leading the blind!! :-)

Dear MYK readers, I'm not teaching you Korean per se, but just sharing what I've learned with watch out, as I will be making mistakes as well.

I'm relying on the help of kind readers such as Clammy and Anne to aid us all in learning the language.

여러분 아자 아자 화이팅!!! :-)

ladida said...

haha..don't worry, Liz, I'm here to have fun and you guys are def. doing just that!! :)
So Clammy, you're from LA. Hmmm..maybe the next time I visit Vegas I should do a drive-thru in your hometown & give a shout out to you thru a megaphone "annyeonghaseyo, my smexy cyber chingoo!..annyeongikyeseyo!" ..cringeworthy moment, eh? hahaha..i'm just goofing around; no need to press the panic button (..not yet) ;P

Clammy said...

Ladida I think I should take a leave of absense from this site! (for personal safety reasons!) HA HA! j/k. Where abouts in socal are you from?

ladida said...

i can personally vouch that i have never been admitted to a mental institution. Erm, mental relapses/retardation...well, that's a whole different issue ;P
I used to live in Santa Clara but currently, i reside in the monterey county.

Clammy said...

ladida Oh, you're in NoCal. A good friend of mine lives up in Livermore. He dives in Monterey Bay a lot.

ladida said...

I think Monterey Bay is pretty popular w/divers. if only I could swim..

Clammy said...

ladida Yeah Monterey Bay is very popular with divers. I've never dove with him up there. He usually comes down to southern california to dive with me because he works 10/4s and has every friday off.

Mimiejay said...

for those who are not familiar with BM..
Kata Bilangan in English is collective a "flock" of birds..or a "bunch" of bananas..

thanks Liz, Orchid and Rooster for this awesome blog!

K-popped Rocks!

Joanne said...

thank youuuuuuuuu~~ :)

this was very helpful! I'm going to korea, and i need to know my numbers ;)


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